|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 17, 2019 12:26:40 GMT -8
All the tires are Coker. The compound is actually very good. I'll run 45 psi front and 22 psi rear. Hold rpm's at 3k on the starting line and slip the clutch a bunch until it feels hooked up, then left pedal up and right pedal down! Playing with trans fluid has gained a bunch of speed shifting also. I use 50/50 mix of synthetic 75-90, and Mercon 5 ATF.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 17, 2019 13:12:31 GMT -8
I used a synthetic gear oil from a company called “ lubrication engineering”. It was the best shit ever. It made a unbelievable difference in shifting. I used it in everything. I put it in the t-10s i rebuilt and installed. Everyone thought i was some kind of transmission guru. It was the gear oil. It was a lighter multigrade, i think it was 70-85? Lots of people run heavy gear oil and don’t know it is making their trans shift poorly.
|
|
|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 17, 2019 13:24:06 GMT -8
Yep, thin oil works great. I have been using straight synthetic ATF up until this race, and only mixed to help reduce oil seapage from being so thin.
|
|
|
Post by PHAT69AMX on Sept 17, 2019 14:29:39 GMT -8
About AMC T-10 Ratios, ? Seen this about the Kokomo IN Beachy Brothers S/S AMX and "work" they supposedly did with Borg Warner there in the Indy area ?... Wonder if Brian Higgins who is still working the Long Island NY S&K Speed Transmission shop knows anything about this or may even have pieces and parts ?...
One of the neatest things to happen was our association with Borg Warner in Muncie. Borg Warner contacted the original owner of the Muncie Drag Strip and inquired if any of the local racers used Borg Warner transmissions. The strip owner, Mr. Grimes, I think, served up the Ray-Wel Motors/Beachy Bros. car as a possibility. We took our team and car to Borg Warner and had a great discussion about four speed transmissions and different gear ratios. At that time, the 1968 AMC four speed had a 2.64 first gear and a 2.10 second gear. In actual use, after launching in first gear, shifting to second was like going to 1A instead of second. The ratios were too close. In 1969 AMC offered a 2.23 first gear and 1.77 second gear. That was great for the road race efforts for the Javelins in TransAm, but still not the best for drag racing. Mr. Armantrout, the head of engineering agreed to provide three transmissions for our use and development. First gear was 2.64:1 and second was 1.91:1. It was a tremendous improvement and was worth about .2 sec in the quarter mile. One transmission stayed at the plant, one was in the car, and the third transmission was in the truck in case we had problems. We were not to repair the transmission, just return it to the plant if we had any issues at all. We would take out the transmission, install the spare, and go to the Borg Warner factory to exchange for the inspected and refurbished unit. The gear ratios and special HD bearings in those transmissions were the forerunner of the Borg Warner Super T-10 transmission series.
|
|
|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 17, 2019 17:48:37 GMT -8
This is a cool old AMC T10 trans I have stashed that was built by Liberty Gears with custom ratios very similar to the aftermarket ratios in Performance America Style(except for the lower 1st gear), and is pro-shifted (no syncros "crash box"). It may be a bit too much 1st gear for what I'm doing, but maybe I'll try it sometime. Might be a pain trying to rpm match every shift on the street though. 20190120_215025 by Joe Pinsoneault, on Flickr 20190202_164336 by Joe Pinsoneault, on Flickr 20190202_164346 by Joe Pinsoneault, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 18, 2019 3:45:25 GMT -8
So the two mystery transmissions in p.a.s. , are aftermarket bw/ power brute... super t-10? The first batch of supers came out in 69... t-10 w? Anyone have a copy of p.a.s? Or info on these mysteries? Supers had 1 inch countershafts, wider gears, special heat treated parts, i dunno what all. I know this topic is joe’s, maybe a t-10 topic is in order? Phat, now i had no idea you had such a close relationship , or general knowledge, to the t-10 experience. I for one have a appreciation and overall curiosity on the t-10 history and evolution. I consider all resources worthy of coaxing more info from. And i know its not in the spirit of pure stock drag racing but the current richmond t-10 offerings have some very interesting ratios... what about liberty gear? Still around? The unit joe showcases a very wide gap between first and second and a super close third to fourth. That trans depicts a very ... specialized? Ratio progression?. It likely has a very interesting history? Wow! I tend to assume liberty could offer a pretty wide varied ratio option? My 401 69 javelin has a wide ratio ford toploader four speed, 2.78, 1.93, 1.36, 1.00. I used to have several but sold them off through the years. The ratio progression is marvelous. I have raced this trans forever and it is the crown jewel of all i posess. For a interesting look at the toploader , check out david kee toploaders site. He offers a wide array of ratio options for this very contemporary transmission.
|
|
|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 18, 2019 4:57:33 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 18, 2019 6:06:48 GMT -8
Larry Weymouth's wicked blue sc360 Hornet uses the 2.43 trans and had a 4.10 gear up until this year, switching to a 4.44 gear. Seems like ALOT of SLR, but he claims it's not bad at all since his engine makes power to 6k rpm. Wheelspeed is easier to control by just backing off the throttle slightly. His car has 60' around 1.76 and runs 12.8X @ 106-107 ish. My current engine is spent by 5200 rpm and makes more torque, so a little less gear seems better. With the 2.23 and 4.10's I've been 1.88 60' and know it could do better with a 2.43. I've had trouble locating one locally, but the guy with 5 T10's for sale in Florida on GAYMC says he can ship one FedEx for $180 and has one 2.43 trans. I'm currently pursuing this one.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 18, 2019 8:04:39 GMT -8
4.44 is in the 6000 rpm window for a 27 “ tire or bigger, a hornet can take a 28” tire. The amx cant. So final drive ratio is best selected on tire size with regard to rpm at finish. I assume he is taking advantage of wheelwell... unless everyone must run a spec size tire? Looking at the super”s” ratios... second is tall and super close to third. Makes the “w” box look like a better choice. Guess it dont matter when they apparantly dont exist. I bet if there are still amc supers out there, nobody knows what they have. If they did they have a very rare piece. That slickshifted box you have joe is as unusual. Does it have a 1” countershaft? Liberty could mod any case for a super countershaft... did you notice how wide first gears teeth are, compared to second and third?
|
|
|
Post by n2ojoe on Sept 18, 2019 8:29:01 GMT -8
The countershaft is standard .875". I never noticed 1st gear width until you just pointed that out, interesting.
As far as tire size, we have to run factory wheels and stock tire size, but are allowed 1 size larger tire if we want. With my 70 AMX I run the optional 15x7 Machine wheels so I have stock size E60-15 Polyglas on the car. Larry's Hornet only came with 14x6 wheels, and he runs 1 size larger tire at F70-14.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 18, 2019 8:39:46 GMT -8
I agree with larry, a deeper ratio makes controlling tirespin/ hook much more manageable, as it slows the tire and adds a harder torque “ hit” to the tires. It is much easier to feel and react to loss of traction.... I got in some interesting “ arguments” about that. I figure people who think a deeper ratio just blows the tires off honestly have limited experience with the joys of drag racing😆
|
|
|
Post by PHAT69AMX on Sept 18, 2019 11:51:14 GMT -8
I'm a bit over my head here. No T10 hands on. Just research and curiosity. Remembered seeing the Kokomo Beachy Brothers T10 stuff on Tom Benvie's web site. Mainly where they said the had a "special" 1.91 2nd Gear ratio version that help them considerably with the S/S car. Since the other ratio steps were less than desirable or functional for drag racing as so the Beachy Bros suggested. Wondered if the 1.91 2nd Gear would help n2ojoe get better times, if it could even be had. Other than that, reading where the AMC Version seems to be a "mid-version"... Where the other big 3 had used them first, then quit, then AMC used'em, then later GM went back to'em. Was under the impression that later when GM went back to'em is when they became or were called "Super T-10". And there are difference between all three "vintages". Much beyond that little bit of almost nothin', I'm in over my head about T10's. My Hot Rod was a slushbox.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 18, 2019 12:36:43 GMT -8
Well given joe has a 2.23 low, and your halfway down the track by the time you hit second, I dunno if a 1.91 second would help a lot. Now if you could pick a 2.64, then a 1.91, then a 1.35 then you would really have something. The 2.64 low is in my opinion better than the 2.43 low t-10 p, simply due to the better 1st. Its the too low second that hurts it, and third is too low too. Shifting to furth and it feels lazy. The t-10 p has a too tall second, then the shift to third is too close. So you need to hit 4th real quick. All said and done, they all suck. The two supers are no better in ratio progression. So basically pick a loser and live with it cuz they dont make a good one. Your going for least worst. And i dunno which one that is really. The 2.64 low is weakest in terms of torque because second has great torque multiplication, and given a sticky tire, second will “ flex” the shafts, and shuck the gear teeth. This was always a problen with the lower ratio t-10s. And the reason for the beefier countershaft and wider gears in the supers. T-10’s were expendable in a hi powered big inch drag car back then. They wouldnt live with aggressive clutching and big inches. And its dumb but the factories had no choice but to use them , hence the use of close ratio t-10s in big engined cars. It was strongest ( maybe 350 ft lb capacity) in a 425 or better ft lb application. Thats why the toploader, a833, muncie, all came about. The super t-10 was borg’s answer, but it wasn’t that super... back then the toploader was a strong option, and it was used a lot , even chevie guys wanted them . It has always been king, evolved into the jerico, and a jerico is your answer to ratios since it has a modular clustergear assembly and can be built with a millio different ratios and combinations, and anyone racing with four gears and power has one. But then again it aint factory stock. And i dont think a 2.64 low t-10 T is for a 70 amx, and for that matter i dont think a 2.43 low was likely either. Not that anyone would ever know, whats in the car. But when you start winning too much ...
|
|
|
Post by sc397 on Sept 20, 2020 10:05:10 GMT -8
I hear that n2ojoe has a update for us! Click on the video to see who wins. IMG_3979 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by spud on Sept 20, 2020 11:39:32 GMT -8
Joe’s the man👍🏻
|
|