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Post by Captain Awesome on Feb 3, 2020 10:48:03 GMT -8
I will say, after many treatments, they were stickier. I drove the tires on the street daily, so they wouldn't stay in prime condition.
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Post by spud on Feb 3, 2020 13:38:41 GMT -8
The hot lap stuff is a petroleum distillate, very much akin to latex paint thinner or 3812 wax and grease remover. I got mine from the local circle track emporium, they also sold this cool electric roller rotissery deal that had a tray you filled up will tire dope and turned it on and it slowly rotated the tire/ wheel assy on rollers, evenly coating them, they say you can leave the tire on it as long as it took to get them sticky. I think the solvent was strong enough to completely ruin a tire if you overdid it. It would also dissolve undercoating if you slung enough of it into the wheelwell.
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Post by Captain Awesome on Feb 3, 2020 16:23:46 GMT -8
I see they changed the name from VHT to PJ-1. The price has about doubled since we last got it. A gallon lasted a really long time.
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Post by spud on Feb 4, 2020 9:49:44 GMT -8
My hornet amx was a good study in spring rate change. The car had 4.30 gears and 27x11.5 hoosier qtp slicks, but traction was very poor.The stock front springs were pretty stiff . I had good drag shocks on it , but got very little improvement in my 60 ft times with them, and had exhausted myself adjusting and readjusting them. I knew my stock springs had problems, the car leaned to the drivers side. The drivers seat was also pretty beat, and the backrest leaned back pretty far. (I figured the previous owner was pretty fat) so i started planning some suspension upgrades. I rebuilt the front suspension and replaced the front springs with spirit 4 cylinder springs. The rear springs were wasted. Broken leaves missing clamps and bad bushings. Drivers side had lost a lot of arch. Why mess around i bought calvert dual parabolic monoleafs and caltracs. I adjusted the rear shocks to 50/50 . I went to the track and Made a pass. Had some tire spin but not as bad, knocked about 3 tenths off my 60 ft times, going from about 2 seconds to 1.7. I started loading the caltracs some and got them tuned in a couple runs, so i had no tirespin at all, and was generating some 60 ftd under 1.5 seconds. Video showed the whole car lifting on launch, front lifting, rear suspension seperating some. Tires were showing nice even traction with 20 psi. I was running nice consistant 10.77 times and actually started winning rounds. So in my perspective the springs made a big difference. First runs the caltracks were misadjusted and not working at all and the car still picked up 3 tenths in the short time. The caltrack bars sealed the deal, adding another 2 tenths and got the car hooked.
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Post by Captain Awesome on Feb 4, 2020 10:43:11 GMT -8
I am enjoying all the science being posted about 6 banger springs over there. It appears people jusy have to actually experiment instead of talk about it.
I left the beat 6 banger springs in the maro and they work good for that turd. I got the skinny on them from a local guy that no one could beat. He had a 10.70 car back in 1990. Very low buck build. He started with a 78 Turbo Regal. Threw away the front shocks and sway bar. Ran no shocks at all on the front. Bounced like a rubber ball, but dead hooked a 10 sec car on any street. I forget if he used air bags, or air shocks in the rear now.
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Post by spud on Feb 4, 2020 14:06:57 GMT -8
I think what the big point is how ya gonna hook up a factory stock amx? On peasplitter tires? With a stupid tall first gear? And decent torque? With a stock suspension? Well relatively stock as far as the world knows? I guess at this point i stated my best ideas.
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Post by n2ojoe on Feb 4, 2020 14:39:52 GMT -8
And it is all appreciated Spud. I certainly don't know it all, but most of us on this board have been around awhile and have done the usual crap. Good to hear a softer front spring helped, I was considering the 4 cylinder springs but am worried about a low front ride height. I'll probably try them along with the Calvert 90/10 front shocks, and tune from there once weather breaks up here. My new engine makes quite a bit more torque than the old bullet, so it may require less gear also. Let the fun begin, between tuning the AMX and trying to actually race the Mustang every month this season.
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Post by spud on Feb 5, 2020 4:07:03 GMT -8
Its true enough we all have things to learn, and learn from each other. Hi torque is killing you on launch. Lower gears help to lessen wheelspin. Lower gears help in hooking because they give the pinion more power to crawl up the ring gear and put more twist on the axlehousing , load the springs and lift the chassis. Lower rear end gears help most but lower trans first gear is good too. Given the tires and gears you have, more low end torque is not gonna help your holeshot, but will help if you get traction. Initial tirespin sets you up with a hotter tread, and a hotter street type tread is slipperier, so it just gets worse at gear change time. I think the clutchtamer idea is a very good one. Now i didnt have a lot of luck with my rookie attempts with junk making the idea work, but the hardware you are looking at is a different deal. You will be rewarded with spring rate and shock tuning. Also you must focus on your pinion angle. It should be down a few degrees so it rises on launch and aligns u joint angle. This will improve traction and lessen spring “ unloading” or wheelhop tendancy. The amx traction bar can be preloaded to force the pinion angle down and this is a very good idea. I know its winter. Thats a good time to think about it and plan action. Also since were thinking about torque, you might consider a timing control that removes timing on launch to tame your newfound torque. It may be cheating but it may just be smart to control the beast.
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Post by spud on Feb 5, 2020 9:44:53 GMT -8
Phat posted some good info about trunnion springs... the light rambler spring is orange strip. Thats what i went to. No info on late springs, but i remember spirit 4 cyl being the lightest available when i studied this many years back. I think moog had published info on rate. A coil spring tester can be used to verify rate. The late spring has a unique shape and makes it obvious if you swap in a trick spring. Moroso has a wide selection of springs. If you wanted to swap in some 5 “ coils, afco has a nice selection. Reworking the perches for a 5” spring opens up a wide selection of different length and rate springs. I modded my 70 jav chassis with an afco spring adjuster on the spring perch and can adjust ride height in minutes, and change out both springs in an hour.
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Post by PHAT69AMX on Feb 6, 2020 19:37:30 GMT -8
Already had this typed up from a 1969 TSM:
1969 AMC FRONT COIL SPRING SPECIFICATIONS ....................................................... Rate LBS. per ........................................................ Inch After Series and .. Equipment ........... Wire .... Loaded ..... Loaded .. Color Engine Type . Model ... Location .. Dia ..... Height ..... Height .. Identification
1969 AMC JAVELIN SERIES - FRONT COIL SPRINGS
JAVELIN Six Cylinder
.............. Light .. Left ..... .496" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 93# .... White Stripe ..per IPM?. 319 1040 ............................................... All Coils ..per IPM?. 319 1040 .. Right .... .496" .. 9.84" @ 800# .. 83# .... Red Stripe .................................................................... 4 Center Coils
.............. Heavy .. Left/Right .505" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 100# ... White Stripe ........... 319 1069 ............................................... 4 Center Coils
.............. WAC .... Left ..... .496" .. 9.84" @ 890# .. 93# .... Yellow Stripe ........... 317 8922 ............................................... All Coils ........... 317 8923 .. Right .... .496" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 93# .... White Stripe .................................................................... All Coils
JAVELIN V-8
.............. Light .. Left/Right .505" .. 9.84" @ 975# .. 100# ... Blue Stripe ........... 318 5128 ............................................... 4 Center Coils
.............. Heavy .. Left/Right .513" .. 9.84" @ 975# .. 115# ... Yellow & Red Stripe ........... 319 1471 ............................................... 4 Center Coils
................ WAC .. Left/Right .513" .. 9.84" @ 1010# . 115# ... Red Stripe ........... 319 1039 ............................................... All Coils
AMX .......... Light .. Left/Right .505" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 100# ... White Stripe ........... 319 1069 ............................................... 4 Center Coils
.............. Heavy .. Left/Right .513" .. 9.84" @ 935# .. 115# ... Blue Stripe ........... 318 5129 ............................................... All Coils
.............. WAC .... Left/Right .513" .. 9.84" @ 1010# . 115# ... Red Stripe ........... 318 5128 ............................................... All Coils
1969 AMC RAMBLER SERIES - FRONT COIL SPRINGS
RAMBLER Six Cylinder .317 2895... . Light .. Left ..... .471" .. 9.84" @ 830# .. 80# .... Orange Stripe .............. WO/AC ............................................... All Coils .316 9815 All Models .. Right .... .471" .. 9.84" @ 800# .. 80# .... Yellow Stripe .................................................................... 4 Center Coils
316 9814 ..... Heavy .. Left/Right .505" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 100# ... White Stripe 319 1069 All Models ............................................... 4 Center Coils
317 2894 ....... WAC .. Left/Right .496" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 93# .... White Stripe 317 8923 All Models ............................................... All Coils
RAMBLER V-8 Front Coil Springs -------
.....317 8922. Light .. Left ..... .496" .. 9.84" @ 850# .. 93# .... White Stripe .....318 8923 Sedans ............................................... All Coils ....... And Hardtops .. Right .... .496" .. 9.84" @ 890# .. 93# .... Yellow Stripe .................................................................... All Coils
...317 8923... Light .. Left/Right .496" .. 9.84" @ 890# .. 93# .... Yellow Stripe ..... Station Wagons ............................................... All Coils
...318 5129... Heavy .. Left/Right .513" .. 9.84" @ 935# .. 115# ... Blue Stripe ......... All Models ............................................... All Coils
...318 8923..... WAC .. Left ..... .496" .. 9.84" @ 890# .. 93# .... Yellow Stripe ............. Sedans ............................................... All Coils
...318 5129 &Hardtop .. Right .... .513" .. 9.84" @ 935# .. 115# ... Blue Stripe .................................................................... All Coils
...318 5128..... WAC .. Left/Right .505" .. 9.84" @ 935# .. 100# ... Green Stripe ..... Station Wagons ............................................... All Coils
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- information believed accurate but not guaranteed - ckt AMC FRONT COIL SPRINGS 080608 - ckt from 1969 AMC Technical Service Manual Section 12 page 12-33 ------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by n2ojoe on Feb 7, 2020 1:26:18 GMT -8
Good info, guys. That's the stuff I'm interested in Spud, the modifications most guys wouldn't think of. I'd be curious to see pics of your front spring/adjuster install.
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Post by spud on Feb 7, 2020 4:23:23 GMT -8
Every form of “ stock” racing only has a small intitial period when cars are stock. It doesnt take long till the machine gets modified. Its just warfare, someone wants the edge, someone is tired of losing, and the perception is everyone is modifying so you have too. Its not hard at all to change a part to “ almost stock” . Particularly when the car is 50 years old and your resources are limited. We justify our choices. Anyways i can take a pic of the sting adjuster. Its not stock and easy to spot. And posting things like it on the net is like asking the chicoms to mass produce it so there will be plenty in the future lol. Consider your ride height. You got like 850 lbs pushing down on a single front spring and it is something like 8” tall when loaded. So if you wanted 100 lb/inch rated spring you would need it to be 8” tall at ride height. So it would have to be about 16” free length, since its gonna compress 1” for every 100 lbs you put on it. Thats an example similar to a trunnion suspension, the late suspension uses much stiffer springs due to the contact point on the upper a arm gives the wheel much greater leverage against the weight of the car. I think stock springs are in the 400 lb/in neighborhood. 600 lbs would be road race range. Drag racing would want lighter. Point is fee length is relative to rate and desired ride height. Stiff springs start short, compress a little to ride height, decompress the same amount to full unload height. The opposite is true of low rate springs. They start long, compress a large amount to ride height, decompress the same large amount to full unloaded height. So spring adjusters can make this balancing act more livable. The math formulas for understanding the relationship is called “ ratio and proportion” and i need to kinda study an old math book i have to remember something important here.
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Post by spud on Feb 9, 2020 15:02:27 GMT -8
Kinda funny watching amcenthusiast jump in the deep end for two pages about something he has no idea of. Thank you ken parkman for clearing the smoke out. But then again after kens explanation i realize i still dont know so much about it☹️ Cool video of kens hornet, it leaves a lot like my hornet, not to much drama.
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Post by Captain Awesome on Feb 9, 2020 18:54:25 GMT -8
I was trying to be nice about his blathering. The NRF really shouldn't be offering info to the masses.
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Post by spud on Feb 9, 2020 19:48:32 GMT -8
Good thing about idiots is they always bust themselves.
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