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Post by spud on Aug 7, 2019 18:16:48 GMT -8
I have! I built a 343 for klvn8r, he had one of those cranks , someone had i modded to 3.27 stroke with the small chevy size rod journals. I saw a set of the forged 290/343 factory rods at a swap meet once. Both items seem pretty hard to find. I think jim landis has one of the cranks. I asked if he was interested in selling it but i dont think he is interested in letting it go. Honestly i figure a good 390 crank with 401 rods is the perfect way of getting a forged lower end in a 343 or 360 block. But at that point might as well use a 390 or 401 block . Which gets me to the point of why bother with anything less than a 401.
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Post by 69Rebel on Aug 7, 2019 18:48:45 GMT -8
That's cool to hear that somebody has one somewhere. But, yeah, why fiddle with anything less than a 401 if you have a choice at all? OTOH, Cap and I were talkin' here a while back and we were thinkin' that 360-380 cubes is really the "sweet spot" for the AMC V-8.
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Post by PHAT69AMX on Aug 7, 2019 21:52:42 GMT -8
1968 Trans Am rules, must be stock 3.28" stroke, so steel cranks. 1969 Trans Am rule change, 3.28 stroke steel crank need ended.? Why ya don't see'em ?
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GROUP 19
Aug 8, 2019 3:11:20 GMT -8
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Post by spud on Aug 8, 2019 3:11:20 GMT -8
Funny you mention that. Klvn8rs brother has a crank ( and a four bolt main “ rp “ or racing parts factory experiment block) from a later trans am engine, in 1970 they were allowed to use a service block with a 4.080 bore, so they used a 2.8 ish stroke crank. The crank he has looks like a factory amc crank, but with the short stroke. I have some documentation stating they also used cranks from moldex. Not sure of crank origin of moldex units...if it was a forging from amc or a billet or what. They also used carillo rods on those engines. Or some of them. 1969 engines were more mysterious they had many different things going on but for the most part were overbored 290s, some pwere traco, kaplan built his own later. Kaplan had his own ideas with tunnel rams and dominator carbs tried. Many myths and rumors and variation and rule jugglin/ changes and cheating going on. 68 engines were the most known and a straightforward overbored 290 traco engine was used universally on the kaplan javelins. So there were a lot of changes in those engines, from different years in the kaplan then penske trans am efferts that could fill a book. So it is safe to assume the 69 engines traco built likely had the group 19 crank and rods. Probably kaplan engines did too. But there may have been a change later. Kaplan was cutting blocks down for lower deck heights, he may have been cheating the bore and stroke, but thats speculation on my part. By the time penske took over the big bore short stroke service block and non factory crank was well established. There are surviving examples of factory parts with no numbers, “ rp” designations, custom parts like carrillo rods, odd tunnel ram intakes, that tell a take of confusion regarding the amc trans am efforts. So what people actually know man be a lot less than what they think they know.
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Post by 69Rebel on Aug 8, 2019 6:18:53 GMT -8
T/A was probably the best example of AMC having their shit together for a racing program, along with Pro-stock. They were very competitive with small displacement engines. IIRC, Booth's winning combo was around 370 cubes. Back in the days of lbs/ci. Short stroke/big bore was the ticket.
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GROUP 19
Aug 8, 2019 8:48:32 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by spud on Aug 8, 2019 8:48:32 GMT -8
T/A was probably the best example of AMC having their shit together for a racing program, along with Pro-stock. They were very competitive with small displacement engines. IIRC, Booth's winning combo was around 370 cubes. Back in the days of lbs/ci. Short stroke/big bore was the ticket. Short stroke big bore is always the ticket for better high rpm power and nobody build midrange race engines cuz hi rpm is where power happens.
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Post by PHAT69AMX on Aug 8, 2019 11:48:41 GMT -8
This is the remainder of the text from the 12-page 1970 AMC Rebel Machine "Owners Manual Supplement" typed up :
1970 American Motors Rebel Machine "Owners Manual Supplement"
Cover Page, 1 of 12:
INTRODUCING YOUR MACHINE OR WHY WE SAY UP WITH THE REBEL MACHINE -----
page 2 of 12:
congratulations! You are now the owner of America's newest super car from American Motors - the Rebel Machine! No doubt the 1970 Rebel Machine is the car you've always wanted. That makes all of us happy. The old saying "You get what you pay for" makes a lot of sense because your Rebel Machine is loaded with high performance equipment, all standard.
Performance . . . handling . . . styling. You've put yourself into the most enviable go machine going street or strip. As an owner of a Rebel Machine, you'll also appreciate these extras, the standard American Motors product warranty, plus the Hurst lifetime guarantee on the Hurst shift linkage. Now check out the remaining pages of this manual for a description of the special equipment items found on your Rebel Machine and other performance specifications. -----
page 3 of 12:
full page image only -----
page 4 of 12:
standard equipment on your rebel machine...
am 390 cubic inch V-8 A new breed of super mill is at your command . . . 340 horses @ 5100 rpm and 430 foot pounds of torque @ 3600 rpm. Intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, and exhaust system have been specially designed for the Rebel Machine to increase "breathing" and horsepower. This is the largest and most powerful engine ever offered by American Motors.
functional hood scoop At full throttle a vacuum-operated valve in the hood scoop opens automatically to permit cooler outside air to enter the 4-barrel carburetor. (Carburetor and ignition timing have been calibrated to accept the cold air induction and denser fuel charge.) The result: outstanding acceleration and performance. -----
page 5 of 12:
heavy-duty cooling system Be cool. System includes a heavy-duty radiator, power-flex fan, and fan shroud. AT higher speeds flexible fan blades decrease pitch automatically... conserves power and reduces noise.
4-speed all-synchromesh close-ratio transmission Close-ratio 4-speed gearing keeps engine in the optimum power range, especially under full throttle. Lets you get full engine torque in all gears. Console-mounted Shift-Command automatic is optional. (See specification pages following for ratios.)
hurst competition shift linkage Hurst short-throw linkage assures quick, smooth shifts with the 4-speed gear box. Javelin and AMX models also feature the Hurst linkage.
3.54:1 rear axle ratio This ratio is ideally matched to good low speed acceleration and high speed cruising. See specification pages for optional ratios and optional Twin-Grip differential.
hood mounted tachometer Neatly packaged up front in the hood scoop, the tachometer is lighted and highly visible. You never have to take your eyes off the road!
special handling package Includes heavy-duty springs, shocks, and stabilizer bars front and rear... so you can handle your Rebel Machine like a pro. Provides excellent weight transfer on the strip.
power disc brakes (front) You'll get maximum stopping power with disc brakes u[p front. The provide smooth, straight-line stops with minimum fade... and virtually no lock up.. They're rugged, too. Last longer, resist elements.
mag-styled wheels Designed for style and safety, these 15-inch steel wheels feature Silver paint, bright trim rings, and wide seven-inch rims... to help prevent tire roll and keep your Rebel Machine tracking straight.
E60 x 15 white lettered tires These raised white-lettered wide treads (Goodyear Polyglas tm) come on strong, safe, and sure . . . provide maximum traction, handling, and roadability. Also standard is a "Space-Saver" spare. Reduces weight, provides more trunk space. -----
page 6 of 12:
custom interior Your Rebel Machine sports high back bucket seats, a custom steering wheel, cut pile nylon carpeting, red white and blue folding armrest, and Machine identification on the glove box.
styled exterior Distinctive Rebel Machine extreme features red white and blue color treatment (introductory models), special flat black grille, performance hood paint with silver accents, special reflective stripes, and Machine decals.
-----
page 7, 8, 9 of 12:
lengthy multi-column various specifications chart -----
Ah well, hell... copy and paste page 10-11-12 text here also so it's all in one place... no ?...
page 10, 11, 12 of 12: previously posted typed up text:
rebel machine performance packages
When we say "Up With The Rebel Machine" We Mean It !
The very fact that you are a REBEL MACHINE owner indicates you want more than a set of wheels, you demand a GO-MACHINE THAT GOES!
Granted the REBEL MACHINE is a good performer, as is right off the showroom floor. But just because you want to put more "muscle" into your MACHINE, we suggest you consider one of the following performance packages. --------------
i. tune-up kit
Performance can be improved with out sacrificing any of the built in compromises of stock Rebel Machines, in addition to a basic tune-up we recommend the following:
*Change to a fast distributor curve and advance the distributor to a total of 26 degrees. The initial setting should be at approx. 6 Deg. BTDC. The advance should be complete at 2800 RPM. *Re-jet the secondary circuit in your carburetor 2% richer. *Although your Rebel Machine is capable of more RPM, experience on the drag strip has shown that optimum performance can be obtained by setting shift points at 5000 RPM. ----------------
ii. tune-up plus
Still taking into consideration the need for compromise on stock manifolds, you can achieve even more performance from your Rebel Machine with these further modifications:
*Change to a fast distributor curve and advance the distributor to a total of 26 degrees. The initial setting should be at approx. 6 Deg. BTDC. *Re-jet the secondary circuit in your carburetor 2% richer. *Blueprint cylinder heads. Valves should be reground to a performance seat, combustion chambers should be cc'd and brought to the minimum of 49.10 CC's by milling the head surfaces. Mill .010 of an inch from the head to gain 1.6 CC's. ---------------------
iii. street ( all-out )
Once again though such production characteristics as idle, fuel economy, and exhaust sound may be compromised, the all out street machine is still just that, a street machine. Though its idle is rough, and its exhaust level somewhat loud, it is still quite tolerant in traffic, reliable in cold weather, and generally tractable in all-around everyday use. To create this kind of "machine" we recommend the following modifications and changes:
*Install tune-up kit ( As described above ). *Blueprint cylinder heads ( As described above ). *Install Service Package Camshaft Kit which includes camshaft, hydraulic valve lifters, and springs. AMC Service Part No. 448-6719 *Install replacement Edelbrock aluminum intake manifold AMC Service Part No. 448-8409 *Install replacement Holley 4-BBL 850 CFM, Dual Pump Carburetor ( ? List # ? ) AMC SERVICE PART NO. 448-8658 *** *Install Doug Thorley headers AMC Service Part No. Left Side 448-5727 Right Side 448-5726 Purchase headers from hot rod shops, or order direct from Doug Thorley Header Co. *Install Mallory Hi-Output Ignition System AMC Service Part No. 448-7900. The desired ignition curve is pre-set in the distributor from the factory. -------
iv. nhra ( blueprint-not for street )
The following changes and modifications represent a list of permissible engine and chassis changes recommended for preparing a car for National Hot Rod Association stock class.
In NHRA competition although many modifications are allowed in suspension and safety areas, the engine parts must remain exactly the same as those installed in the car when it leaves the factory. Of course, it can and should be completely blueprinted according to released factory specifications. According to the released factory figures your Rebel Machine has an advertised shipping weight of 3650 lbs. with an advertised horsepower rating of 340, which gives it a power to weight ratio of 10.735. This qualifies it to compete in NHRA G/S & G/SA classes.
*Blueprint cylinder heads ( As described above ). *Bring combustion chambers to minimum cubic centimeter allowable by factory spec. *Re-bore engine block .030" over-bore. *Install Mallory Hi-Output Ignition System AMC Service Part No. 448-7900. The desired ignition curve is pre-set in the distributor from the factory. *Re-jet carburetor secondary 2% richer. *Reduce car to optimum weight ( 3650 lbs. ). *Retain heavy-duty 10-1/2" Borg & Beck clutch and 40 lb. flywheel. ( ref. 1969 Hurst S/S AMX AMC Shiefer Flywheel Service Part No. 448 8100 ) *Install rear axle ratio of 4.44:1, AMC Service part No. 320-9854 *Use 28.5" x 7" rear drag racing slicks. *Install special 90-10 front shocks *Install special 50-50 rear shocks with 1-3/8" piston diameter. ------
Under AHRA rules engine and chassis preparation is not restricted solely to the use of stock parts. The following recommended changes and modifications are based on experience and testing done both on the dynamometer and the drag strip.
*Install a manual lash camshaft of your choice, ( maximum .580 lift recommended ). *Replace stock cylinder heads with special (1970) large valve performance heads AMC Service Part No. 448-8659*** *Install special Edelbrock aluminum intake manifold AMC Service Part No. 448-8409 *Install special Holley 4 barrel 850 CFM ? Vac Sec ? Carburetor ( ? List # ? ) AMC Service Part No. 448-8646 *Install Mallory Hi-Output Ignition System, AMC Service Part No. 448-7900. The desired ignition curve is pre-set in the distributor from the factory. *Install Doug Thorley headers AMC Service Part No. Left Side 448-5727 Right Side 448-5726 *Add Ram Air Package ( Only if car is not equipped from factory ). *Retain heavy-duty 10-1/2" Borg & Beck clutch and 40 lb. flywheel. *Install special 8" rear wheel rims. *Use special 10" rear drag racing slicks. *Install special 5.00:1 rear axle AMC Service Part No. 448-6587 *Install special 90-10 front shocks *Install special 50-50 rear shocks with 1-3/8" piston diameter.
***Order from: Hurst Performance Research Corp. 10711 Northend Ave. Ferndale, Mich. 48220
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end of document - page 12 of 12
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