|
Post by spud on Dec 10, 2016 11:16:55 GMT -8
Ok so I guess there are a couple guys here who build engines . The topic if what the fuck is it with cam bearings these days. Now I fought amc v8 cam bearing fittment for a couple years, always having to enlarge #5 with various stupid methods, and now have given up getting a decent set of those . And since mopar no longer makes 4.0 inline bearings I have to whittle dura bonds to fit. Note durabond apparrantly makes the shit clevite and sealed power box up... so im betting its not just me that actuaaly has to butcher the number 3 cam bearing to get a cam in these pieces of shit. I had to take a cam and turn it into a fucking cutter to get a cam into the engine im struggling to build this week. Anyone else getting fucked as hard as me on this?
|
|
|
Post by sc397 on Dec 10, 2016 17:13:47 GMT -8
Yea, it all depends on the brand of cam. I have noticed that Comp cams are really tight sometimes and I have to take some emery to the bearing and cam journal to get them to like each other. I did run in to a 360 where #5 cam bearing journal that was oversize and the bearing walked in and out. I had to glue that one in there with Loctite to keep it from walking.
|
|
|
Post by lenniamc on Dec 11, 2016 17:48:44 GMT -8
Has anyone tried cam bearings from King ?
I´ve had the same problem with Clevite and Durabond in previous builds, But I´m starting a 401 stroker build soon so I was thinking about trying King cam bearings in that build
|
|
|
Post by sc397 on Dec 11, 2016 18:34:10 GMT -8
I like King bearings so, I gotta assume that the King cam bearings would be ok. Pretty Godam sinetific opinion if you axk me...
|
|
|
Post by spud on Dec 11, 2016 18:47:10 GMT -8
Just bought a set of king cam bearings..bad news folks they are really durabonds in a king box. talked to my machine shop about my cam bearing problems, they are having the same problems. They say cam bearings are shit these days
|
|
|
Post by 73ambocoupe on Jan 10, 2017 20:14:28 GMT -8
I'm glad I came across this post. A few months ago I was slipping the cam in on a new rebuild and it stopped at #5. I got the rubber mallet out and lightly tapped it and the bitch just wasn't going in. Called the machinist and asked him his thoughts. He said just take some Emory cloth and clean it up. I said Charlie I would have to take a grinder for the tolerance is way off. He said bring it back and we will get it right. I said fuck it, justification for another tool, Lisle 18000 on the way. Tried to find some Clevites, but wound up with another set of Durabonds. Figured out how to install them, got them in cam slipped in with no problem. The quality now a days really sucks and seems to be getting worse.
It didn't stop there either. Looked at my water pump and thought I better change it out while I'm at it. The old one never leaked, was stamped 73, but 40+ years old, may as well. Got the gasket all sealed up really nice and put it on. Went to roll the engine over and the fucker was dragging out on the harmonic balancer! Had to take it back off and get after it with a grinder to make it fit! Of course that was some Chinese piece of shit so it really didn't surprise me that much, but the Durabond bearings should have been better being USA built.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Jun 27, 2017 9:46:35 GMT -8
two weeks ago I installed a set of durabond cam bearings in a 360 block and tried to slip a jones camshaft in. Right. It wouldn't go in. The jones cam did measure slightly larger on the bearing journals, so I took it to the machine shop to see if I could polish them down some. He said fuck that. Just polish the bearings. It's easier. I said jeez won't it fuck em up? He said not if your careful. I gave up and went home. Sometimes people just won't play my game. So I decided to give it a try. I taped up all the cam lobes with duct tape to protect the bearings and slid the cam in as far as it would go. Then I sprayed some wd40 on the bearing journals,put a bolt in the snout and turned it with a wrench a few turns, then removed the cam, and looked at the bearings all around. There were a few shiny spots here and there. I painted the shiny areas with a red market, then took a small piece of 1000 grit wet or dry paper and polished the red ink off. When that was done I wiped all the bearings clean with wd40 on a paper towel. Then I repeated the slow tedious process for about 10 more hours. And ya know what? It worked. So I dunno if it was easier or not but I do think it's probably a good tight fit and probably won't loose as much oil to the crank as making the cam bearing journals smaller.
|
|
|
Post by lenniamc on Jun 27, 2017 9:50:49 GMT -8
I once did a similar thing to what you are describing. Took and old cam ( some stock piece of shit cam ) Put Autosol (metalpolish) on the journals put it in the block and turned it, It worked after a couple of passes the new cam would fit But I had to clean the entire block and oil passages again
|
|
|
Post by spud on Oct 14, 2018 8:27:47 GMT -8
Well i never did finish my 4.0 litre engine cuz i spent too much time and money trying to replace the cam bearings. Ultimately giving up because the id of the cam bearings on 1,2 &3 were too small to get a cam even started to go in. So i been in my garage cleaning it up so i can build some engines and looked at the 4.0 block, which has been setting on my work table since i dont know when. And this is the saga of how i finall got the cam in...I decided to give it a hail mary try ... I had been kicking around an idea to either fix it or ruin it . I planned to scrap it anyway since it i thought the cam bores were out of line. I had tried different brands of bearings a few different times with the same results. So anyways i measured the id’s of the cam bearings and 1,2 &3 were .003-.005 smaller than the cam. 4 looked relatively ok. I checked several cams and they all had very uniform journal sizes. So it looked like the bearings were the problem. I took an old cam and cleaned it up, then made small cuts in the rear of the bearing journals on 1,2 &3, one small cut on each journal, kind of a nick in the corner where the polish meets the rough side, cleaned and oiled everything, put a bolt in the cam and installed it, well tried, put it in place as far as it would go, then started slowly turning it with a wrench, the little fcuts i made in the cam started to have small curls of bearing metal coming out. I continued a little at time, cleaning and reoiling. Pulling the cam out and cleaning again and again. Eventually i had cut the entire id out of 1,2&3, and 4 had quite a bit of fresh shiny polished area to it, indicating a tight fit. The cam was in, and very hard to turn. I finish polished all the journals with1500 grit wet or dry paper, wet with mineral spirits, using the same slow tedious process of installing the cam, turning it a few times, removing it, sanding the shiny polished areas to a dull sanded finish, the repeating the process over and over. By twilight i had the cam installed and turning with a reasonable amount of drag. It was still making some shiny spotsbut i was satisfied it would work. It took ALL day. Im convinced the block is ok. The crank turns free, the deck is straight. The cam bores are reasonably in line. The bearings suck. I tried sealed power, durabond and clevites. I ruined a bunch of em. In the end i used sealed power bearings and this is what it took. I believe all the bearings were from the same manufacturer in different brand boxes. Now i will finish this piece of shit just to see if it works. And also to get this abortion out of my garage and into my car. If it works great if not it should be worth a few bux at the scrapyard. I started this project probably ten years ago. After getting the cam in i just lost interest in it. I cursed mopar, cam bearings and the futility of it all. Now this engine will compete against a 304 for the spot under the hood of my 69 streeter. Let the best engine win.
|
|
|
Post by 69Rebel on Oct 14, 2018 8:35:32 GMT -8
Hopefully the new bearings don't de-laminate. Some years back, the 401 in my Rebel was showing pretty low oil pressure idling hot. I took the pan off and found chunks of babbit (or whatever they use) in the pan. Pulled the motor and tore it down to find that the rods and mains weren't too bad. The chunks were from the cam bearings.
|
|
|
Post by spud on Oct 14, 2018 8:39:31 GMT -8
Ive seen that issue a lot on high mile engines. I figure if time was money thecam bearings in this piece of shit cost me several hundred $ and if i dont get mu moneys worth at least i can destroy this mopar made sack of shit and move forward
|
|
|
Post by 69Rebel on Oct 14, 2018 8:50:46 GMT -8
You gonna FI that 4.0? Is that the one with the 258 crankshaft?
|
|
|
Post by spud on Oct 14, 2018 13:14:13 GMT -8
Dont got no long term plans. Short term plans is get it running with analog carb and ignition. Those may change when i either give up that plan or it works. I wanna try to make existing 80 model water heated aluminum 258 intake and weber carb setup , which is currently on my 232 work with a gibson 4.0 jeep header on the completed 4.0. The 4.0 at this point is stock 4.0 lower end with .030 over sealed power rebuilder special pistons, which totally suck at .030 down the hole deck clearance which pisses me off, a lightly ported 94- ish 4.0 head concentrating on a bowl blend, mopar performance springs, mopar performance 222 degree cam (1000-5000 rpm) msd distributer and ignition, 232 damper /pulleys/ accesories/ flexplate/ mounts/ pretty much everything else. Pulling against a 75 vintage “ hi stall” convertor/904 trans. Footnote here is existing 232/904 cam from a 75 hornet. Im not happy at all with the 4.0 as it is. And is what it is. Got another 4.0 , when the 232 comes out, i may gut it for the crank and put it in yhe other 4.0 block. Point here is the 232 crank has a little more stroke, which when used with the sucko rebuilder special low compression height pistons, will get me about a zero deck, which is more aligned with the desireable .040 deck clearance that i like. Also a bit more stroke (3.50 ) and not the mega hi piston speed 258 crank. So thats getting into long term maybe wont happen veiw. I gotta take it easy or it wont get done. Im losing patience with this project after 10 years of sporadic procrastination. Good news is the cheapo 360 is ready to install. Bad news is the 4.0 isnt. Worse news is captain a and rick have me thinking 304 thoughts. Good news is i dont have a 304 to waste time money and effort on. Bad news is its probably on its way soon. Good news is its a cheap start. Bad news is its never cheap by the time it fires up. Other plans include a stock 70 390, a 030 over stockish late 401 i scavenged from a boneyard warmed up with a 218 degree crane hydraulic roller, five speed overdrive trans and pipedreams like that..... but the WORST news of all is i HAVE to install new cam bearings in both the 70 390 and the late 401 blocks first thing...and yaknow me and cam bearings just dont like each other anymore!!!☹️🤬🤨
|
|