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Post by spud on Oct 9, 2018 9:03:15 GMT -8
Swirl port 304 heads? Yes i want to learn stuff. I saw some good photos on the gaymc. I have been into vortec chevies for a few years, and have been interested in modern head design. My current umm fetish i guess is fuel economy. Ive had plenty of fun building some decent performing street/ race engines, but burning assloads of fuel gets kinda old. I still get into it but the smaller more forgotten amc engines have become more of what interests me. Now our buddy captain awesome has me staying awake at night thinking seemingly pointless ideas about 304s, yeah its pretty sick. So anyways this topic is here to help satisfy my curiosity about the 304. Questions about 304s . Hell i dunno. I like em so what? So i wanna know about the swirl port head. Was it production or experiment. Any experiences? I know i might be aiming this at rick, since his javelin is 304 powered. And what ever became of the stroker 330 inch 304 with swirl port heads? That one really had my interest but the topic went dead five or six years ago....
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Post by sc397 on Oct 9, 2018 11:14:29 GMT -8
You can see pictures of the heads in here. It was Greg Taylor's engine and he had his own ideas on how to do things so he had a strange pile of components. I am not sure what ever happened to the engine. I will see if I can find him and ask him. At the time, I talked to the "Cylinder Head Guy" that worked on those at AMC and kept saying "Those are not for high performance". I didn't really care. Like you, I wanted to know what it would do for low end torque and effeciency on a small displacement engine. I wish I had them back now. www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=95564&page=3
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Post by hurst390 on Oct 10, 2018 2:40:32 GMT -8
I have a set of those heads
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Post by spud on Oct 10, 2018 5:01:46 GMT -8
Are you interested in maybe selling them? Im interested in buying some. 😁
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Post by 69Rebel on Oct 10, 2018 6:28:14 GMT -8
Where those heads ever a production item?
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Post by sc397 on Oct 10, 2018 6:34:06 GMT -8
I don't think so but, I could be wrong. I will pull mine out and see what part numbers are on them.
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Post by hurst390 on Oct 11, 2018 14:26:29 GMT -8
My set came from Tom Reffner..He had 11/32 guides in them..I had planned to try them on a 304 this winter to put one of my Hornets back to original..But if it don't happen I might sell them..
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Post by hurst390 on Oct 13, 2018 5:07:57 GMT -8
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Post by hurst390 on Oct 13, 2018 5:15:56 GMT -8
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Post by hurst390 on Oct 13, 2018 5:17:27 GMT -8
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Post by spud on Oct 13, 2018 6:06:56 GMT -8
Interesting. Comparing to ricks pics i can see yours have been modified. The contour of the chamber follows the bore diameter. The bump in the floor to wall radius has been removed. The entire port has been polished. Was someone trying to get more flow or more swirl? The concept of swirl is to induce flow directives into the intake air to get it to fill the cylinder with a spiral effect, to allow a more uniform flow and filling, high velocity of charge to promote atomization, evaporation, air to fuel homogenity, and as the piston rises and compresses maintain a higher turbulence so when the spark occurs the charge burns more completely, efficiently and quickly, to maximize fuel efficiency, reduce emissions, and a benefit of fast burn rates is.. get this... higher engine efficency by way of reduced pumping loss. Get your brain around this. In a fast burn engine, the spark advance time/ degrees of advance situation is reduced, less lead on ignition results in less time the combustion pressure is pushing down on a rising piston, reducing power loss, and it also causes more pressure after tdc, since the combustion process happens faster getting more “ steam” as the piston decends, all the work is over by maybe 35-40 degrees atdc. Hi swirl fast burn is nothing new. A guy wrote a book on it a hundred years ago. I was looking at my 289 ford heads when i was a kid wondering why ford was so stupid for making such a ridiculous combstion chamber. Guess what? It wasnt as ridiculous as this sixteen year old idiot thought. What i didnt know was huge. One thing about life when you think you know you might be really ignorant. Now that i know im ignorant, i want to try and know something.🤓
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Post by spud on Oct 14, 2018 15:09:26 GMT -8
Looking at the heads used in the stroker 304 that rick built and comparing them to jim’s modified swirl port heads, there may either be differences in the heads, or modification in jim’s heads. Since i dont have a set, i think it may be an option to add epoxy to the common 304 head in key areas to enhance the swirl effect. The combustion chamber in the rick heads appears to be same as largechamber 304 heads. The chamber in jims heads appears to be opened up to a larger size. Maybe even bigger than a 304’s 3.75 bore size. I guess at yhis point i cant loose too much epoxy- ing up what i have. Since i have no test equipment it would be a copy what amc did situation. Which is pretty much how it goes for me. Trial and error would be a step up. Open to ideas though. Not a lot of public info i can find on the subject.. seems to be proprietory info within research and development inner circles. Studying vortec chevy heads has offered no viable modification tactics to the amc head. Why mess with it? Well same reason chevy messed with the 350. To make it work better and use less fuel. The stroker 304 project to me was a great success in the area of enhanced combustion and lowered brake specific fuel consumption ( bsfc) and thats a very cool thing. Kinda sux the owner hasnt posted anything about its actual road performance.
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Post by javtwotone on Oct 15, 2018 4:39:20 GMT -8
Hoping SC397 gets a hold of the guy, curious myself what happened..
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Post by sc397 on Oct 15, 2018 11:26:25 GMT -8
Hoping SC397 gets a hold of the guy, curious myself what happened.. He ended up having all kinds of health issues.. Hi Rick, It's been sitting in my garage in storage. Life drastically changed and so I never put the Jeep back together (and am considering just selling off the parts and keeping the stroker from future use). I have been sick the past 7 years and am recovering from a really bad jawbone infection from a couple old root canals. Greg
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Post by sc397 on Oct 15, 2018 12:48:15 GMT -8
Not that it matters, according to the casting number they are actually 360 heads with 304 valves in them. IMG_0927 by Rick Jones, on Flickr I have 3 cylinder heads left and sorry Spud but, I don't want to get rid of them. 2 of the heads are bare castings and the third one has valves and has been on a running engine. All 3 heads are date embossed 1979. Two of the cylinder heads have a -1 at the end of the part number and the one has a -2. Without measuring, it looks like the difference is in the combustion chamber. IMG_0919 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0918 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0917 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0915 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0921 by Rick Jones, on Flickr This is the one with the valves and has been on a running engine. It is stamped #12 on the end and #15 on the inside. IMG_0925 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0924 by Rick Jones, on Flickr IMG_0923 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
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